Rhi
Cat People
every story tells a picture, don't it
Posts: 68 
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Post by Rhi on Mar 30, 2013 15:23:11 GMT -5
I cannae be the only one around here who watches! Let's talk about Clara, her mysterious last words, and Moffat still being hurt about the Twitterati!
Also how I'm not super keen on the promo for next week.
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Post by Beth on Mar 31, 2013 5:31:03 GMT -5
Haha, I thought about posting about Who here too! Glad someone beat me to it  I...wasn't actually that impressed with last night's. Clara was much more intriguing as a Dalek and as a Victorian governess. I was hoping that we'd have something different to the spunky, attractive young white girl with attitude and there seemed to be more of that in the previous episodes with Clara in than with this one. I didn't buy her as a friend of the family/nanny, especially one who's 24 and doesn't know how to connect to the wi-fi (and if she'd been living there a year surely she'd have already been connected?). I did get really excited when I thought she was in a relationship with the dad because Who under Moffatt has been very white and straight, but then that was clarified pretty quickly :\ I wasn't entirely sure about the concept behind the episode either. It was kind of interesting the idea that the wi-fi was downloading people, but it felt very technophobic after a while, rather than a plot device, and that annoyed me. I actually missed the 'joke' that Clara made about Twitter - I just caught the comment the Doctor made. It doesn't surprise me that Moffatt is still going on about it though! I quite liked the promo for next week, though I think I got a bit caught up in the more SF nature of it rather than actually listening to what the content of the episode would be. What weren't you keen on? |
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Post by thewordiebirdie on Mar 31, 2013 9:41:03 GMT -5
I have to admit, I thought last night's episode was a little flat, too. This new iteration of Clara doesn't seem to be half as much fun as the others, but let's just hope that they're slow-burning this one, and she'll develop into something cooler.
I think the new approach of building story arcs into Who and other shows is both a blessing and a curse sometimes - I wanted there to be a legit baddie in last night's Who, and it was clearly just laying some groundwork for something much bigger.
It might be leftover grumpiness from my experiences with other shows that got bogged down under the weight of their own backstory coughxfilescough but I do find myself enjoying a good solid standalone episode more than any arc episode in any show I watch. Is that just me?
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Post by poetryghost on Mar 31, 2013 11:05:25 GMT -5
I was also wondering about the similarity to the wire from Idiot's lantern and to the episode where everyone has those earpiece bluetooth looking things which semi control them.
I rather enjoyed it but I was a bit belatedly bemused to note Miss Kizlet says to add computer skills to Clara just before she's uploaded - why? It becomes convenient later but why does she ask for that?
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 6, 2013 4:59:32 GMT -5
I liked the scene with the leaf when the Doctor asked what it was and Clara replied that it was 'Page 1'- very poetic and for me, one of the highlights of the episode. Once more, we got to see the new interior of the TARIDS which is quite cool. Different feel from the last couple of series but I like the retro feel- sort of gives a nod back to the past which is obviously very relevant given its the 50th anniversary What does anyone else think about TARDIS interior? The title was very clever- 'The Bells of Saint John' referring to the phone on the TARDIS- because after all it is a police phone box! (I loved how even the Doctor seemed a little bemused by the phone ringing!) I also liked the reference to Amy as she was the author of the book that the child was reading- nice bit of continuity there. I like how we're moving on but not forgetting. Yet also not obsessing about past companions as Series 3 did with Rose. Martha did seem to get overlooked/not given a chance to develop because of the frequent references to Rose so it was nice to see Clara given a chance to really be a character in her own right and not be overshadowed by Amy/Rory (as great as they were) Clara is awesome though- different to Amy but in a good way I think. I liked the comments about twitter- very relevant and funny. Love how Moffat gets his digs in subtly I know others were less keen on the episode but I think it was a good start. I guess a lot of this episode focused on introducing Clara (the 'third Clara' if you will) and thus was a character episode rather than being a full on sci-f action adventure (kind of like the 11th hour when they introduced Amy) Did anyone else get a little freaked out next time they connected to the Internet? I keep checking just in case there is something in the Wi-Fi! Looking forward to tonights episode! |
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Post by Beth on Apr 6, 2013 11:35:46 GMT -5
I rather enjoyed it but I was a bit belatedly bemused to note Miss Kizlet says to add computer skills to Clara just before she's uploaded - why? It becomes convenient later but why does she ask for that? I was wondering about that too. I'm not sure. I'm assuming it's going to be important in the rest of the series though and this was a handy way of giving her those skills? I liked the scene with the leaf when the Doctor asked what it was and Clara replied that it was 'Page 1'- very poetic and for me, one of the highlights of the episode. [/size][/quote] I liked that too. Do you think the references to Amy and Rory mean they're going to show up in the 50th though? I really want to name my wifi connection the same as it was in the episode! I am looking forward to tonight's though. |
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 7, 2013 8:21:09 GMT -5
Anyone watched last nights episode?
The back story of Clara was interesting and I like how they picked up on the leaf- Clara's speech about the life was very emotional. I feel like I'm getting to understand Clara a bit more now- she's quite different to other companions but in a good way.
I liked the bit about not walking away but also that when we are holding something precious we run until we are out of the shadows- lovely speech once more.
But my favorite part had to be the Doctor's conversation with Mary when he was talking about how all the elements in her body (and indeed ours) came from the big bang. Very thought provoking stuff. It's what I love about Doctor Who, it really has some great dialogue in it
The TARDIS doesn't seem to like Clara- that was interesting. What does anyone else think about that? (TARDIS didn't seem to like Jack either in Utopia and went to the end of the universe to try and shake him off- but here Clara just wasn't let in?)
The alien fruit looked quite nice as well!
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Post by Beth on Apr 11, 2013 15:23:40 GMT -5
I'd be interested in more of your take on Clara - to be she seems very similar to the other companions and that's what's frustrating me at the moment.
I did like last Saturday's episode, though I feel like I'm doing it all arse-backwards! I didn't like The Bells of St. John and a lot of people did, and I liked The Rings of Akhaten and a lot of people didn't. I did like the story behind the leaf though, and I really liked the Doctor's dialogue. His monologue at the end too I really liked (though I did read an interesting theory that the god could be read as fans demanding more stories from creators...).
I picked up on the TARDIS not liking Clara either, though I'm not sure what to make of it. Clara's the first new companion since the TARDIS took on human form in Gaiman's episode isn't she? If so maybe that has something to do with it?
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 11, 2013 16:13:17 GMT -5
I suppose Clara is difficult to get a handle on because we've seen 3 of her and the relationship between them all has not yet been fully expounded but I'll try and explain the best I can.
What I think distinguishes Clara from the others is her sense of responsibility. Other companions seemed ready to drop their ordinary lives and go off time traveling (e.g. Amy went with the Doctor the night before her wedding) and even though Clara wants to go traveling she wont walk out on those she loves.
This has been the case with all three Claras:
The first Clara (Dalek Clara) put others before herself in that she helped Amy, Rory and the Doctor through the Asylum of the Daleks and let the Doctor go free at the end despite her over-whelming urge to exterminate him). It was that sense of responsibility to others, that very human characteristic that won over the Dalek urges.
The second Clara (Victorian Clara) responsibilities were to the children and countless times we saw her protecting those children. It was of course one of the reasons she sought out the Doctor's help- to protect those she cared about. Her responsibility helped save the world as it prompted the Doctor back into action
The third Clara (C21st Clara) shows the strongest sense of responsibility. She puts her plans on halt and to look after a family that aren't even her own. She recognizes she cannot just up and leave even though a time machine could just bring her back without anyone knowing she'd gone. She would know that she'd gone and that's what's mattered.
I know it can be argued, and the Doctor did, that it's a time machine and you can go off traveling and return to the exact time you left but that's not really the point. After all time traveling is dangerous and you might not return.
She also seems quite self-assured than other companions. Rose and Donna seemed quite self-doubting at times and we saw them grow and develop throughout the series but Clara is much bolder (e.g. we saw her try the alien fruit without too much hesitation and drive the space-moped thing-y).
She also is a character in her own right. Martha spent a lot of her time as a companion living on Rose's shadow but Clara ade it very clear to the Doctor that she was not playing second best (though that gets complicated when you take into account that she doesn't want to play second best to what seems to be herself)
For me the ditinguishing thing about Clara is her sense of adventure coupled with responsility and that's what's good about her for me. Of course other companions have developed this later but usually only after they've suffered some kind of bad thing happen to them (e.g. With Amy it was Rory dying a lot!).
The theory about the God as fans demmanding more stories is very interesting, I hadn't thought of that before and it really changes how I viewed that scene.
I liked the singing in the episode. Song seems to be a reccuring feature in many episodes: the Ood had a song of captivity and then a new song when they were free, the Christimas episode with Katherine Jenkins used song as a way of saving the day and of course there is River Song.
I'm still not sure what to make of the TARDIS rejecting Clara. Maybe incarnating as a human changed how the TARDIS views things. Maybe she knows something about Clara that we've not yet found out?
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 14, 2013 7:45:51 GMT -5
Anyone watch 'Cold War'? (the stuff about nuclear weapons felt quite relevant with stuff going on at the moment)
I liked the fact the Ice Warrior kept referring to his daughter and it was Clara he listened to- postive repreentations of female characters, especially that he stood side by side with his daughter in battle
I did think throughout the episode that the TARDIS went away because she didn't like Clara and ditched them, but that hypothesis was proved wrong at the end. I'm still not sure what to make of the TARDIS not letting Clara in, I feel that is really significant somehow.
I also found it interesting that when the Professor man asked Clara about what she liked doing she sort of blanked him with the answer of 'stuff''. I don't know whether than was because she was too scared to really concentrate or something more significant (in that she didn't know- memories missing somehow?) though I may be reading too much into it.
I also really like the runnin theme of showing strength through mercy. It's one of my favourite things about Doctor Who that it does not promote violence. Also, that the Doctor oftens wins through knowledge rather than solely using blunt force which is shown time and time again to cause more problems than it solves.
I was watching this episode in the dark and it kept making me jump loads! Next weeks episode looks really good though!
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Post by Beth on Apr 14, 2013 11:37:35 GMT -5
I liked the points you made about the three different incarnations of Clara and how responsibility is a key thing tying them all together. I hadn't thought about that before. I really wasn't a fan of last night's episode though! I actually got up and fed the cats halfway through it, and then caught up on Twitter for the rest. I thought having the Russians speaking with English accents was a poor get out, and I thought the whole 'mutual destruction as prevention' thing was just really not in keeping with the Doctor at all. I also found it interesting that when the Professor man asked Clara about what she liked doing she sort of blanked him with the answer of 'stuff''. I don't know whether than was because she was too scared to really concentrate or something more significant (in that she didn't know- memories missing somehow?) though I may be reading too much into it. That interested me too, then I figured as nothing came of it it wasn't that important and stopped thinking about it! It would be interesting to see if that comes up in any future episodes though. I can't even remember what the advert for next week's was now! |
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 14, 2013 11:57:24 GMT -5
I do agree with you about the Russian having English accents. It really confused me a moment because it of it being set in the Cold War and the comment about American advancing. It was a case of 'hang on, why are the English attacking America?' before I realised they were actually meant to be Russian.
I think they tried to overcome it with that dialogue scene about Clara asking if she was talking Russian and I did notice a bit of Cyrillic on the submarine (although surely the TARDIS would have translated that?) but I agree with you that it did quite pull off convicingly. The TARDIS can translate words but does she now translate accents?
In the 'Let's Kill Hitler' episode the Nazi soliders in that had German accents but spoke English so I'm not quite sure why they didn't do something like that (maybe not able to find enough actors iwith/could do a convincing Russian accent?)
I assumed the Doctor's mutual destruction as prevention was a bluff. Of course he has a reputation across the universe of being a warrior (he fought in the Time War and let his people be destroyed- twice) so he was maybe using it to his advantage to force Ice-Warror's hand/tentacle to undertake peaceful action rather than nuclear war. Of course it is interesting to question what would happen if this hasn't worked as it is a risky stratergy after all?
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Post by Beth on Apr 16, 2013 6:16:09 GMT -5
I think they tried to overcome it with that dialogue scene about Clara asking if she was talking Russian and I did notice a bit of Cyrillic on the submarine (although surely the TARDIS would have translated that?) but I agree with you that it did quite pull off convicingly. The TARDIS can translate words but does she now translate accents? Yeah that's how they tried to get past it but I was reading (my supervisor's) review and he pointed out that contradicts TARDIS continuity so I'm not sure about how successful that was: reviews.doctorwhonews.net/2013/04/cold-war.htmlI assumed the Doctor's mutual destruction as prevention was a bluff. Of course he has a reputation across the universe of being a warrior (he fought in the Time War and let his people be destroyed- twice) so he was maybe using it to his advantage to force Ice-Warror's hand/tentacle to undertake peaceful action rather than nuclear war. It was supposed to be a bluff I think, but I felt like it didn't work that well. I don't know - I just wasn't at all impressed! lol |
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 17, 2013 8:08:01 GMT -5
I just read the link you posted and it was really interesting. It's interesting to consider that the decision to not use Russian accents/sub tittles was a reflection on how they felt the audience would perceive it and thus English accents were a way of 'playing it safe'
I agree that the continuity here was 'stretched' or pushed to its limits (which is odd given the script was written by Mark Gatiss who is usually pretty good in these kinds of things?). Which in some ways was a shame because the episode involved continuity in others way in bringing back the Ice Warriors. It's one of the things I like about this era of Doctor Who, such nods back to past Doctor Who- feels especially relevant given the 50th anniversary.
I also like the fact that it's now been established that there are Ice Warriors remaining and seemingly quite a lot of them. This allows them the potential to return in future episodes/series. Kind of like what they did with the Silurians
The Doctor seems quite different post-Amy/Rory. I think this was quite evident in his speech to the Sun-God (thingy) in the 'The Rings of Akhaten'. He seems 'wounded' for want of a better word. Still the mad man in a box but a little more reticent. I think that's kind of reflected into the change in the TARDIS interior as well if you compare it to the Amy/Rory era. I think this is a positive thing as it shows character development and that the Doctor was effected by by what happened to Amy/Rory.
It's nice that it was mentioned but that they don't bring it up constantly like they did about Rose when Martha was a companion (I know I keep bringing that up but I liked Martha and I think she was over-shadowed by constant references to Rose and never really allowed to develop as a character in her own right which was a shame)
Still really looking forward to Saturday's episode looks nice and spooky (It's great at the moment: Doctor Who on Saturday and new pages of MSCSI on Sunday!)
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Post by Beth on Apr 17, 2013 9:40:46 GMT -5
Weekends at the moment are awesome, definitely  Yeah I think I was disappointed in large part because I've always enjoyed Mark Gatiss' work before. I do like how there are so many nods back to classic Who though - I think it would've been a really bad decision to not look back given it's the 50th this year. I definitely think you're right that Martha was overshadowed by Rose though. It does annoy me that they keep making (what I think are too many) references to Amy and Rory, but I think that's because I really wasn't keen on them and would like to move on! Unlikely for the year of the 50th I think, but there you go I do still look forward to each week's episode though. |
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