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Post by lucy on Apr 14, 2013 3:45:47 GMT -5
Post your reaction to the new pages here!
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Post by Beth on Apr 14, 2013 10:08:10 GMT -5
I bloody love Cat!
(More coherent thoughts to follow once I've re-read the pages a few times *g*)
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 14, 2013 11:15:08 GMT -5
Good for Cat for standing up like that and pulling Enrique up on those comments. I really like how confident she appears in these two pages.
I've been re-reading Cat's first meeting with Enrique in light of these two new pages.
Hmm, Is Enrique lying here? (Assuming he's Misper) then is he just pretending that Grange is Urbanite or does he really not know (i.e Is Urbanite's secret/real identity not known to anyone but Urbanite?)
Also, if Brandon Stewart is posing as Misper (as Grange is posing as Urbnanite) does Misper know? His comments about Grange/Stewart's relationship suggests he doesn't approve of aspects of the pseudo-identity. But this pseudo-identity must serve some purpose? (Note that
I'm not sure what to make of Enrique here. His homophobic comments annoyed me but then opening the door for that woman sort of redeemed him a little (as did his apology for the comments- not that such an apology makes it okay for him to say those things in the first placeo of course)
He does seem quite conscientious at times. Opening the door for that woman and he offered to walk Cat home when she first me him. But those comments he made did seem to be something of a knee jerk reaction- a macho defence mechanism maybe? (though what would make him be so defensive all of a sudden?).
Is Enrique Misper or is it possible that he could be Urbanite (I don't really know where that theory is going, I've always assumed he's Misper but that hyper-macho defence mechanism style comments is similar to stuff we've been assoicating with Urbanite- maybe he's been spending too much time with Urbanite?)
I reckon he was following Cat because their meeting was broken up before (by Urbanite?)- maybe he wanted to tell her something important. He does seem to know quite a bit about her if he keeps 'bumping' into her (i.e. he knows where he hangs out- not so easy to find out in a time before facebook etc.)
I find it interesting that he reveals he has a mother and two sisters. Growing up in a matriarchal family would maybe explain why he held the door open for that woman but then doesn't explain why he would team up with a hyper-macho persona like Urbanite. Going from matriarchy to patriachy seems pardoxical or at least holding those two aspects of himself must be quite a struggle.
Like I said before Im not too sure what to make of Enrique. But these two pages do reeal some interesting things about him.At times he seems quite reserved. We've discussed before his nervousness/reluctance to divulge too much might be because he's being 'hunted' but this hyper-macho defensive comment he made seems to be another aspect of his personality.
(Also on a slightly shallower note I really like the skirt and blouse combo Cat is wearing on Page 5 as well as her coat on Page 6)
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Post by Beth on Apr 14, 2013 11:19:26 GMT -5
Okay, so there were quite a few things that made me happy in this week's pages. First of all, I love how assured Cat is when she goes up and asks Enrique if he's going to buy her a coffee. I don't know about you all but it still seems like there's this thing attached to girls asking guys out. Like you're being too forward, or it's not your place, or it means you're easy or something. And I'll be the first to admit that I get ridiculously self-conscious (and full of self-doubt) if I even think about asking out someone I like, so it's actually great to see Cat be all 'I like you, buy me a drink', and that's what they do.
The other thing I really, really liked about this week, though, was Cat calling Enrique out of the homphobic language that he uses. I don't know when the last time I saw/heard/read someone doing that was but I thought it was handled really well. Cat doesn't get funny about it or anything, she just tells Enrique it's not cool really matter of factly. And Enrique doesn't start going off on one about freedom of speech - he accepts that it wasn't an appropriate thing to say and the conversation moves on. I also thought it was good to have Cat say something in the first place. I know sometimes I find it really difficult to call someone out on the language they're using, for whatever reason, and I can see how, if it's someone you like/fancy it'd be harder to do it because you want them to be attracted to you too, so I really like that Cat won't stand for that from anyone.
Other things: Urbanite and Misper take a back seat this week, but I kinda like that because we get to see more of Enrique. Do you think she knows he's Misper (if we accept what me and Sophie were talking about last week) and is just trying to get a response from him, or is she genuinely wanting his opinion on who Urbanite and Misper really are?
I also like how Enrique grew up surrounded by women - his mother and sisters. I think that's definitely shaped the good guy Cat calls him now, and while I thought first of all maybe the holding the door open thing was perhaps a bit too contrived, reading it again a few times I think actually that's how he would have been brought up. I like that we're seeing a lot of single mothers so far, and moreover they're not being demonised!
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Post by Beth on Apr 14, 2013 11:28:06 GMT -5
Hmm, Is Enrique lying here? (Assuming he's Misper) then is he just pretending that Grange is Urbanite or does he really not know (i.e Is Urbanite's secret/real identity not known to anyone but Urbanite?)
Also, if Brandon Stewart is posing as Misper (as Grange is posing as Urbnanite) does Misper know? His comments about Grange/Stewart's relationship suggests he doesn't approve of aspects of the pseudo-identity. But this pseudo-identity must serve some purpose? I think he is lying, though Urbanite's real identity being a secret from Misper as well would be a really fascinating way to play it! How would you know who the 'real' Urbanite was? What if you were out with one, and then saw another one? It opens up loads of opportunities to play with masks and identities. And I also wondered whether his comments about Grange and Stewart were designed to throw Cat off that line of questioning. Originally I'd read it as it being Enrique trying to look tough, like Cat says, but thinking about it now I wonder if he doesn't want Cat getting too much out of him, and makes those comments because he knows it'll throw her off that train of thought. It does make it sound like he doesn't approve of some aspects of that pseudo-identity though, whether he knows about it or not. Is Enrique Misper or is it possible that he could be Urbanite (I don't really know where that theory is going, I've always assumed he's Misper but that hyper-macho defence mechanism style comments is similar to stuff we've been assoicating with Urbanite- maybe he's been spending too much time with Urbanite?) I don't know, I don't think he's Urbanite. I have no idea what I'm basing that on, but in my head Urby is older and whiter (basically every superhero in our world rolled into one and made a bit more of a stereotype). Plus I think Enrique is too conscientious to be Urby. Urbanite doesn't seem to have any of the compassion or thoughtfulness that Enrique has (although admittedly we haven't seen much of him so far). I find it interesting that he reveals he has a mother and two sisters. Growing up in a matriarchal family would maybe explain why he held the door open for that woman but then doesn't explain why he would team up with a hyper-macho persona like Urbanite. Going from matriarchy to patriachy seems pardoxical or at least holding those two aspects of himself must be quite a struggle. I'm definitely finding Enrique more of an interesting character the more we find out about him. The move from matriarchy to patriarchy is an interesting one, and I wonder how that will continue to pan out. |
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Post by Will on Apr 14, 2013 11:28:48 GMT -5
The panel where Cat calls Enrique out for his comments was an interesting collaboration between me and Suze -- I had a different line of dialogue there originally, Suze suggested rightly that it was clunky, and we tossed around some alternatives before settling on the line that now appears -- knowing it would be sold through Cat's eye-rolling expression.
So it's an example of the artist actually challenging and shaping the script, in this case.
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Post by Beth on Apr 14, 2013 11:30:10 GMT -5
That's interesting. Can you tell us (or show us) what the original dialogue was? I do love Cat's expression in that panel - it reminds me of Scully!
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Post by Will on Apr 14, 2013 11:38:38 GMT -5
I don't know why I wrote this, but the line was
CAT: You ever heard the saying, you don’t have to blow other PEOPLE’S candles out, to make yours shine BRIGHTER?
I think I was imagining that this might be a saying or proverb in Cat's alternate universe (maybe I had in mind something about 'the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long', also in Blade Runner) but I also think Suze was absolutely right in suggesting it was laboured.
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Post by Will on Apr 14, 2013 11:41:48 GMT -5
Bear in mind that Enrique jumps up and grabs the door not just because he has old-fashioned manners, but because he's not happy with where this conversation's going!
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 14, 2013 11:41:52 GMT -5
I've always read it as Cat knowing, or at least having an idea, of who Misper is. Mostly this comes from the scene where she's playing basketball and spots Enrique.
The caption/writing bubble thing-y talks about Misper looking hunted. That's what makes me think she kind of knows who Misper is (assuming Enrique is Misper). Of course like Beth said she could just be getting his opinion on the issue
I'm still really puzzling over the Urbanite/Misper/Grange/Stewart connection. I'm thinking one (or more) of these is a pseudo-idetity but I'm not sure which is which anymore. Are any of these real at all?
We were talking about Urbanite's hyper-macho identity being some sort of cover but Enrique makes comments about his trainer (Urbanite?) giving him a hard-time/being tough on him. That's what leads me to think Enrique doesn't fully know Urbanite. Of course Enrique could just, as you said, be trying to distract Cat/lead her mentally astray.
I also like how confident Cat was in asking him out for coffee and I agree with your analysis of that Beth. It was similar to the first issue when she went over to him in the club/bar. I didn't pick up on the portrayal of single mothers but re-reading it, it is a postive portrayal. Also off those top of my head are we assuming Dahlia is a single mother as well (not mention of Daisy's dad as of yet?) because that too would be another positive portrayal.
His comments as a way of throwing Cat off the scent is an interesting interpretation. I'd just read it, like you, as a way of trying (and failing) to look tough/impress Cat. But she is a sharp one and she did recognise Enrique was following her (which either suggests she's got great power of observation or his following skills need some improvement for a superhero).
Also, if he knew it would throw her off her train of thought then that would suggest something quite calculated- because it does distract her and she changes the topic afterwards. Has Urbanite warned him about Cat maybe?
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Post by Beth on Apr 17, 2013 10:20:52 GMT -5
I don't know why I wrote this, but the line was
CAT: You ever heard the saying, you don’t have to blow other PEOPLE’S candles out, to make yours shine BRIGHTER?
I think I was imagining that this might be a saying or proverb in Cat's alternate universe (maybe I had in mind something about 'the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long', also in Blade Runner) but I also think Suze was absolutely right in suggesting it was laboured. Yeah, I think Suze was right to suggest you change it. I like the idea of Gloria-specific sayings, but I don't think it would've worked so well in this panel. Bear in mind that Enrique jumps up and grabs the door not just because he has old-fashioned manners, but because he's not happy with where this conversation's going! Ah, I didn't get that originally! Re-reading it now it seems obvious, but at the time I thought it was abrupt but didn't make the connection that he wasn't happy with the conversation. That makes things interesting then. I want to know now why he wasn't happy with the way the conversation was going in relation to his family, but wasn't bothered about Cat calling him out on his language. I've always read it as Cat knowing, or at least having an idea, of who Misper is. Mostly this comes from the scene where she's playing basketball and spots Enrique. Yeah I'd assumed that she knew too, but I don't get why she'd be taking a 'softly softly' approach with Enrique now if she really thinks he's Misper. I mean, I can get why she'd want to not scare him off, but I also think she's more direct that that. I'm still really puzzling over the Urbanite/Misper/Grange/Stewart connection. I'm thinking one (or more) of these is a pseudo-idetity but I'm not sure which is which anymore. Are any of these real at all? Yeah I'm still wondering about all of this too. I definitely think at least one of these is a pseudo-identity, but I'm not sure which one, or why. I can't help feeling that Urbanite's hyper-macho identity is an important part in try to work this out, but we're nowhere near finding out anything more about that either! I'm coming round to thinking that Enrique/Misper doesn't really know Urbanite either. I know he comes across as trying to look tough but we know that he's been brought up well too, and so I wonder whether he is calculated enough to try and distract Cat. I didn't pick up on the portrayal of single mothers but re-reading it, it is a postive portrayal. Also off those top of my head are we assuming Dahlia is a single mother as well (not mention of Daisy's dad as of yet?) because that too would be another positive portrayal. Yeah I'm assuming that Dahlia's a single mother. Do we see many other single mothers in comics? |
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sophie_ali
Cat People
Twinkle Twinkle Little Bat, How I Wonder What You're At
Posts: 129
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Post by sophie_ali on Apr 17, 2013 10:37:23 GMT -5
This is very true. Maybe she doesn't know as such but has a gut feeling. She might just be testing the water, but as you say surely she'd be more direct than that. I really want to know how Cat and Enrique's first meeting ending- maybe that would shed some light on this.
Is he being truthful about his family? Is it just a cover story to hide what his true identity is? (I'm really sorry for going on about pseudo-identities all that time!)
I was reading a book today and it mentioned that idea that we build up barriers for two main reasons: as a defense mechanism and in order to be calculative. Of course it was a theology book so the theory it in doesn't neatly apply across, given it was mentioned in relation to something completely different, but this seems to fit in quite well with what we've been discussing about Urbanite/? and Misper/Enrique. I assumed the Enrique we've been introduced to is quite 1-faced, in that what we saw is what he is but now I'm not so sure.
Off the top of my head I can't think of one. Hmm, I'll have a think and see what I can come up with
ETA: The only example I can think of is Aunt May from Spiderman. Of course, she is not Peter Parker's mother nor did she start off as a single woman (and I think she re-married?). Though I suppose we can say she is an example of a single woman raising a child.
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Post by Will on Apr 18, 2013 6:31:09 GMT -5
It ended the way we saw it end in issue 1 -- she didn't see him again after Urbanite showed up. That will be made explicit in the next scene (next couple of pages I think).
By the end of this issue, or the start of the next at least, all these ambiguities and enigmas about Urbanite and Misper will be resolved -- of course, there are more things to find out, but these key points should be made clear and I will be able to answer questions explicitly about them!
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Post by Will on Apr 18, 2013 6:33:11 GMT -5
Because the comments about 'fairies' were just what he feels he should say -- a bold front, not really anything deeply-felt or genuine -- whereas his mother and sisters are something real and private to him, and he doesn't usually talk about them (or even think about them).
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Post by Beth on Apr 18, 2013 10:59:59 GMT -5
Because the comments about 'fairies' were just what he feels he should say -- a bold front, not really anything deeply-felt or genuine -- whereas his mother and sisters are something real and private to him, and he doesn't usually talk about them (or even think about them). Ah, okay. I was wondering if there was something that'd happened to his family that he didn't like talking about, something that had led to him becoming Misper (don't comment on that!). I'm looking forward to these ambiguities being cleared up so we can see how right (or how wrong!) we were. Did you expect this much attention to be paid to Urby when you wrote the comic or decided to release it two pages at a time (I'm guessing the weekly released are affecting the way we read and engage with it, I know that's true for me anyway). |
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